uncircumcised

arcadia commented on the word uncircumcised

Male or female genitals that have not been mutilated

ALSO: the natural state of the intact penis

January 15, 2008

uselessness commented on the word uncircumcised

I really shouldn't even comment here. I know I shouldn't, and yet I'm going to.

I can't speak for females. I can only speak for myself (a male, natch). In any case, I think the word mutilation is needlessly graphic and sensational. It conjures images of ground hamburger meat and unrecognizably butchered carcasses. On the contrary, the procedure is quick, safe, and probably painless (or at least, forgotten in one's adult years if it was done as an infant) and the final product is fully functional and arguably more sanitary than it would have otherwise been. My understanding is that the same cannot be said for the female version, so I'm not even going to go there. But someone had to stand in defense of the menfolk who aren't in the least bit angry that they have been "mutilated." It's not like we had our arms lopped off.

January 15, 2008

yarb commented on the word uncircumcised

Also confining comments to the male variety, I don't really see the point of circumcision (except in special cases), but "mutilated" is rather an extreme word. You might as well call piercing mutilation. Have you seen how many toddlers are pierced these days?

January 16, 2008

arcadia commented on the word uncircumcised

I stand by my definition. Google images of the "quick, safe, hospital procedure" and see how you feel. :)

January 16, 2008

jennarenn commented on the word uncircumcised

People get stuff removed all of the time. I think that the difference is that they don't sedate the babies to the same degree that they would an adult. The poor little boys are fussy for a while after they've had the procedure, understandably so.

January 16, 2008

chained_bear commented on the word uncircumcised

I echo uselessness's sentiment that I really shouldn't comment here. But I'm going to anyway.

There is no comparison between the circumcision of an infant male and the mutilation of a near-pubescent or post-pubescent female. The female's anatomy will not function normally, or if you prefer, "naturally," after such treatment. The same cannot be said of a male who's been circumcised. On that basis alone, there's no comparison. To call circumcision "mutilation" is insulting to the tens of thousands of women who've been abused and, yes, mutilated.

Edit: p.s. google images of any "safe hospital procedure" and you'd get just as grossed out.

and I'll shut up now. Thanks for listening.

January 16, 2008

arcadia commented on the word uncircumcised

WOE. Does everybody here understand that the amount of skin removed from an infant male (within the first week of life) contains nerves and stretches to the size of a 3x5" index card? Does everybody realize that a step in a traditional circ procedure is medically referred to as "tearing of the glands"?

Also, male vs. female circ arguments are controversial because our language limits the terms. Pointing out that there is a difference in how they are done does not change the fact that BOTH procedures fall under the heading "circumcision".

Forget the cleanliness myth, BOTH male and female circs are done to decrease sexual pleasure, though the effects on the female are arguably more devastating. American male circumcision became popular when the Puritans convinced themselves it would eliminate masturbation. I would argue that it hasn't, just as it won't stop the spread of AIDS, which is the current myth.

January 16, 2008

uselessness commented on the word uncircumcised

I understand what you're saying! It's one of those procedures that is just traditional, and I don't know why it's done. Of course, that's never a good reason to do anything. I guess my thought process is that I, a circumcised male (it was done when I was an infant), am fully functional; I have no pain or lack of feeling "down there"; I have absolutely no memory of the operation or remorse that it was done; and I'm not crippled in any way. For those reasons, making a big deal out of it just seems silly to me, despite the seemingly horrific nature of the procedure when it occurs. To live a normal adult life, it is of absolutely no consequence whether or not a person has had it done.

Now the female version is another story altogether, and I can't approve of that in any manner.

January 17, 2008

arcadia commented on the word uncircumcised

uselessness, I like you, but I'm gonna have to challenge your use of the words "fully functional", well, the word "fully" anyway. It's like saying a tongue without taste buds is "fully functional"; sure, you can still use it to lick, move food, swallow, and speak, but it's not as nice to eat with (as you'll know if you've ever burned your tongue - except foreskin never grows back).

January 17, 2008

john commented on the word uncircumcised

I'm circumcised, and while it's impossible to know for sure, I get the feeling I enjoy sex as much as anyone. I think my Jewish friends would say the same, and they've been practicing circumcision for a lot longer than the Puritans (though I had been under the impression that circumcision in America wasn't common until the early 20th century).

Comparing male and female circumcision doesn't make sense--female circumcision is more equivalent to lopping off the entire head of the penis. And I don't think anyone is claiming it "stops" AIDS, but very reputable sources (the World Health Organization and UNAIDS, see Wikipedia) say it reduces the risk of transmission.

For that reason alone, if we were having a boy baby we might consider the procedure, though it certainly seems optional in any case. But we have a girl on the way, so we don't have to worry about it :-)

January 17, 2008

uselessness commented on the word uncircumcised

Comparing one person's sensation to another's is a little too subjective to build a case on. I mean, you may be right... but just the same, I'm satisfied and don't feel like I'm falling short in any area. I guess it's one of those "I don't know what I'm missing" things, but from my point of view I'm not missing anything at all.

Regardless, arcadia, you've got me thinking. I don't have any kids yet, and I really can't think of a compelling reason to put them under the knife when I do. It's not something I've thought much about before. I always assumed I would have it done to them, I guess, because it was done to me... but now I probably won't. Not that I have any strong feelings about it either way, still, but why go out of my way to something I don't have a reason for? That's the epitome of uselessness. ;-)

January 17, 2008

arcadia commented on the word uncircumcised

John! I feel I've "arrived" now that you've joined a conversation I spawned. Thank you SO MUCH for this wonderful site. I'm relieved that this particular conversation meets with your approval since it's relatively "adult" in nature (I haven't been here long enough to know the limits, if any).

That's lovely news that you're expecting a baby. Since you know the gender, is she named? I have 3 (intact) children, all boys. I actually joined Wordie in my search for a word name for my newest.

Anyway, not trying to be sensational here, but I have a loved one dying of AIDS who is circumcised. Even if the risk is reduced, it's still stupid to rely on that alone.

January 17, 2008

uselessness commented on the word uncircumcised

For what it's worth, I have a lot of respect for your "organic mother" approach. My mom employed a lot of the same ideas for me and my brothers, actually (though not the one this page is about). My brothers were born naturally at home, and we were all breast-fed and raised with limitations on media exposure, homeschooled and so on. I can totally relate to your approach, and someday if I'm lucky I'll find a like-minded person to settle down with, myself. ;-)

January 17, 2008

john commented on the word uncircumcised

Hi Arcadia, thanks for the kind words! I pipe in when I can, but when I'm silent for a while it's just because work has flared up, like a hemorrhoid.

The only real limit is "be nice," though that too is interpreted liberally; the occasional vigorous debate or bit of friendly sarcasm is usually well-received. Standards have evolved on their own and I don't have much to do with it, other than being a participant in the conversation.

We have a short list of names, three or four contenders. We're letting them float around in our heads for a while, and hoping that one will just seem right. Her working title, for the time being, is Nuthatch :-) Have you found a name yet?

I'm sorry to hear of your loved one and hope he's doing as best he can. I certainly didn't mean to imply that circumcision is a magic bullet.

January 17, 2008

arcadia commented on the word uncircumcised

Yeah, homeschooling is good (Vote Ron Paul if you care to protect that option) and it sounds like your mom rocked, besides the circ thing. But I have to warn you, if you're ambivalent about this issue going into parenthood, your son(s) could be at risk.

My middle son was born early and hospitalized in incubation for 6 days after birth. I roomed with him through it all, and a day never passed when I wasn't harassed by the staff about getting him circumcised. If he'd been my firstborn son, it may have been even harder to stand up to the pressure. I found it totally distasteful the way they hovered like vultures ready to pounce on him if I'd given the word. And it really all comes back to money with them.

and, to chained_bear's PS, please add "unnecessary" to the "safe hospital procedure" google search. It makes such a difference.

January 17, 2008

arcadia commented on the word uncircumcised

john: We named our new baby Dhaero Jubilee. His brothers are Odyssey Nova and Meridian Mystery (Mystery for the my favorite Beatles album, the one I was singing along with as he was born).

If Dhaero had been a girl, he would be Juniper Sunshine. (That's right, we're shameless neo-hippies). Since Odyssey and Meridian are both words, I was very attached to a word-name for number 3, but nothing fit so I made up the first name he now has. The middle name, Jubilee, is intended to signify mental and emotional emancipation from societal expectations, such as hospital birth.

Forgive me, but was the "flaring hemorrhoids" remark a Jerky Boys reference?

January 17, 2008

john commented on the word uncircumcised

Lovely names all. I particularly like "Juniper" and "Jubilee" -- various June variations have been on our shortlist.

The Jerky Boys, I'd forgotten all about them. If it was a reference, it was subconscious.

January 17, 2008

uselessness commented on the word uncircumcised

Fascinating, arcadia. How do you pronounce Dhaero's name? Is it "dairo"? Oh, and Ron Paul's had my vote since he announced his candidacy. You won't have to persuade me there... or my homeschooling family! ;-)

January 17, 2008

arcadia commented on the word uncircumcised

John-- The Jerky Boys quote you reminded me of is from when Frank Rizzo calls about his "drinking problem"; the receptionist asks "And how is this temper of yours when you're not drinking?" He promptly replies, "Eh! My temper is always flaring up like a pack of hemorrhoids". Great imagery, no?

January 17, 2008

seanahan commented on the word uncircumcised

I noticed some secret hints John dropped about a pregnancy, but I didn't think it was polite to say anything.

January 17, 2008

arcadia commented on the word uncircumcised

seanahan-- oh, it's polite to say something. As somebody with three pregnancies under my belt (quite literally), I can testify that if a person doesn't wish to have their pregnancy addressed, they won't mention it themselves. However, if a person implies that they ARE expecting, it's a green light to congratulate them. That being said, if it is not perfectly clear that the woman IS in fact pregnant, follow this common rule of thumb: Best not to ask until you see the baby coming out of her body. ^_^

January 17, 2008

arcadia commented on the word uncircumcised

see intactivist

October 6, 2008

arcadia commented on the word uncircumcised

http://www.givingbirthnaturally.com/circumcision-video.html

September 22, 2009